“People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along?” – Rodney King
Actually… we can’t.
Nor should we be expected to. BUT that doesn’t mean people can’t behave civilly, even with and around those they don’t get along with. You don’t have to like someone. Hell, you don’t even have to respect them. But you should be able to behave as an adult, be it in public or behind closed doors.
That’s not to say you can’t have, and express your opinions about others. Sometimes even in public. Actually, maybe in public would be better than some of the behind the scenes stuff that’s been happening. And I’m not talking about friends griping to each other, or someone ranting about a problem they’re having with someone to get it off their chest – that stuff is normal, if not healthy.
No, what I’m talking about is the stuff actual conspiracies are made of. Private campaigns to ostracize and exclude specific people over disagreements in “image” or “message”. Discussions about how to … well.. do a virtual stuffing of the ballot box as a means of trying to keep someone from attending a certain event.
If it’s true, it’s childish. It’s immature. It’s stupid really.
Am I calling anyone specific childish, immature or stupid? No. Are they acting in a childish, immature and stupid manner? Yes.
I don’t think this is at all limited to the “WLS community”. I’ve seen it with other groups I’ve been involved in. But.. and this may get me in my own bit of trouble here… I have to wonder if this isn’t primarily a “woman thing”?
Yea, I went there.
See, as I sat here thinking about this, and the other groups I’ve seen such stuff take place, there is one group where I think I can say it hasn’t happened… and that’s my paintball team. At our peak we had over 70 members, large enough to be hit by some of these group dynamics, but this group was like 90% men. The WLS community though is what? 80% women? And those that are “active” with stuff like blogging and such… I bet that knocks us guys down to about a 5% minority.
I think a lot of this comes down to egos, and maybe it is the way the sexes deal with these things differently that causes this? It’s stereotypical to say it, but when guys tend to have problems with each other we’re much more apt to just confront each other and get it over with.
Is it simply about egos?
As former fat dudes and dudettes, the vast majority of us were uber-introverted. The speed at which we lose the weight (in the cases of gastric bypass and vertical sleeves for example) can force rapid changes upon us that are more than just physical in nature. Maybe the reason these actions are so childish is that our egos really are still in their adolescence?
I suppose that could explain away some of it.
Some of it. For others, I think as their physical bodies shrunk their egos just grew and grew. Or maybe they were already huge, but the physical weight held them down in the same way the extra 180 pounds held my body down when it came to getting exercise. Or maybe they were always like this, but before surgery they were doing it in other circles.
If the actions of people like this only effected those doing them, I’d say screw them, get some pop-corn and sit back as I watch them self-destruct. Problem is, egos like this often leave collateral damage in their wakes.
I’ve been witness to the damage being done for awhile… and I’ve pretty much been staying on the sidelines for what I admit are reasons of my own personal … well personal interest. Yea, I almost hate to admit this, but it’s been in my own best personal interest to stay out of things as much as possible.
I try to do some good things with my volunteering and my advocacy on obesity issues, but it’s not just out of simple, altruistic intentions. I suppose I do have a personal agenda. Even before I was getting in to the nutritional field… even if I wasn’t always fully aware of it… I’ve been working towards building a name for myself.
When I talk to pre-ops about WLS, something I’ll often say is that there is really only one way to lose weight. Eat less. Exercise more. But it’s not quite that simple. What my surgery did for me though, is help me when it comes to that “eat less” side of things – which led to me getting more energy so I could be more active, which helped me lose more weight, which helped me get more active… and the whole thing sort of snowballs.
This “getting known” thing is similar. The more I put myself out there, the more I get know, the more people I can hopefully reach. The more people I reach, the more I get known. The more I get know, the more people I can reach. You get the idea?
And yes… like many before me, I’m at a point where if I can find a way to turn this “hobby” in to a “career”. Great, so much the better. Does that make me, or those before me… opportunistic? Insincere? Frauds?
Well, that’s going to be up to you to decide.
I have no problems with anyone looking to turn this experience in to a “money maker”, as long as I believe they are putting the message before the money. I believe most of us that are putting ourselves in this position are doing so. But I also believe there are a few out there who are not – who are putting the prospect of making money off of this group before the welfare of the those in the group.
And again, I think it comes back to egos.
I can’t help but wonder if people like this don’t consider themselves as much a part of a community as they consider themselves above it?
I don’t have the answers here. I only have my own instincts and feelings. And lately, they’re telling me I need to not just be standing up more for the good that is out there, but also standing up against the bad. I’m not exactly sure what the best way to do that is yet… so I’m starting with this. This admittedly, disjointed mish-mash of thoughts that likely doesn’t make a lot of sense, but maybe starts to lay the cards out on the table so to speak.
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” (paraphased) – Edmund Burke
Your balls are showing.
Only if I site “wrong” when in my kilt…
And, I love it. Thank you.
Yeah.. it all sux.. but it isn’t limited to women.. The swing dance forums I have frequented over the years are full of the same craptasic postings.. Virtual knock down, drag out/verbal sparring / name calling, etc over Savoy vs Hollywood style dancing. Some of the worst of it.. from the fellas. So I don’t think it’s a women thing at all.. I think it has to do with the freedom and safety that people feel behind their keyboards.
yea, but those are guy DANCERS! heh. Just kidding Lynnda. Maybe paintball is different cause we get to shoot each other – work our aggressions and such out that way. heh.
But seriously, yea, the anonymous nature of being online is a HUGE contributing factor.
Rob, I think you are on the right track, and it definately applies to some. But I believe that women have a reputation of being catty for a different reason. Simply, it’s not socially acceptable for women to pop eachother in the nose! In your paintball group, if two men have an altercation they can yell, threaten, go chest to chest with their very most intimidating faces, and if noone backs down, a swing or two is acceptable, and in most cases even admired. The message is sent, and cooler heads step in and break it up. If any aggression or bad feelings are left, especially in your group, it is not uncommon to “target” that person during the course of the game and pepper their asses with round after round of harmless paintballs. What recourse to women have? We can’t have a screaming match in public, we can’t take a swing at eachother, resort our feathers having determined the “victor” and walk away. We have been taught subterfuge at the breast. Want a man to do something he doesn’t especially want to do…subterfuge. Want a promotion at work…sure working hard sometimes works and definately helps, but a little subterfuge can get the job done. Why do you think we wear make-up, get out nails done, wear push up bras. It’s all part of the subterfuge, and if it works in one venue, we will try and get it to work in another. I am NOT saying this is right, but it is true. Have I done it, hell yeah. Am I proud of having done it, secretly…probably. No different then a guy feeling pumped up after taking a swing. It ain’t pretty, but it gets the job done. Just my opinion.
Interesting take Patrina… I’ll have to defer to you on much of it… I may have done the heels once, but the makeup and nails and… well, thanks to WLS I ain’t got enough to fill a push-up bra no more.
Hello Dude. I love the blog. I want to say having worked in bariatrics there is NOTHING wrong with making a living doing what you are passionate about. I commend you for that. It is when people start taking unfair advantage of people to make an exaggerated living that its a problem ;) Nice blog
I agree Teresa.. and thanks!
Patrina – The image of Peacocks are now in my head, wearing little stilettos.
Or maybe something like this Beth?
LMFAO! Very clever….both of you!
Good Post Rob.
I see it every once in awhile in my fish and frog forums.. Of all places! So I think it has a lot to do with annonymonity of the net versus women. I WILL agree to stunted emotional growth – there are reasons many of us needed surgery in the first place and our emotions played into it a great deal.
I’m imperfect, and I can only strive to be the best person I can be. My best guide is how I would teach my children to act – and if I’d spank them for acting in such a fashion? Don’t do it!
ok, cause now I’m curious.. is that a “fish and frog” forum.. or a “fish” forum and a “frog” forum?
OMG! THE PERFECT FIT!
I belong to both an aquatic frog (ie they live soley in the water) forum, a few tropical aquarium forums that know nothing of amphibians, and a good joint forum. As well as a planted tank group.. (never knew there was so much diversity in fish tanks, huh?)
And some of the discussions have gotten evil. Truly amazing.
GREAT post. I think it’s awesome that you want to go into something that you’re obviously passionate about in order to help others. I think the problem comes in when you make YOURSELF and your own comfort/success/etc. the center of your mission rather than building up others.
I spent 16 years in “food service”, and believe all jobs essentially boil down to “customer service” on some level. I also believe that if you truly care for and about your customer, the money will follow.
Patrina, I really love your comment, Although there is never just one reason or explaination for anything, I think yours comes pretty darn close.
I may annoy other gals by saying so, but it really is primarily a woman thing. I can’t explain it. My father is the director of a huge non-profit organization that raises money for kids with terminal illnesses. It’s all voluntary. Only men are allowed to join this group. They have their occasional drama, but it’s nipped in the bud right away and they have grown over the years to over 500 members. Three times over the last 25 years, the wives and daughters of the group have tried to create an auxiliary group with their own goals and agendas and each time is has crashed in a blaze of backstabbing glory.
I don’t know if it’s a hormonal thing or some instinctual self-protective thing, but man, we can bring the drama. I think too often the eye gets away from the prize and things become personal and people feel the need to make themselves feel superior by making others look less somehow. The worst part is that they usually assemble the troops before the attack. Maybe it’s more prevalent in women because men or more likely to bow to the alpha-male mentality.
Whatever the case, the mean girl thing need to get in check. /rantish thing. lol
Amber – you don’t annoy.
It’s ABSOLUTELY a girl thing.